by Jorge Patacas
Art of Departure is the solo project of Tarald Lie Jr, ex Tristania drummer and lyricist. He did vocals and played all instruments on his six-song self-titled debut album, except for a few guest appearances. We had the opportunity to do an interview with Tarald to talk about the project and the recently released album, as well as his early days as a musician, his influences growing up, his memories playing with Tristania and future plans!
RISE!: – Art of Departure’s debut album has just been released. Last time we did an interview was five years ago and you were already working on this project. Why did it take so long to see the light of the day?
Tarald Lie Jr.: Good question. In 2019 I had only made one song, the title track, which is also the name of the project. This song took a long time to finish. At the time I was still in Tristania which didn’t take a lot of my time anyway, but it was my focus, and this was just something I was doing on the side. I just worked on this project when I had the time and inspiration to do it. So I made one song per year, until last summer I only had four songs. Then I happened to meet my fiancée and she has really motivated me to get this thing going, so we have cooperated making this into a vinyl release. She’s been really instrumental when it comes to the whole process of making the vinyl. So it took a long time, but then during the last months of last year everything happened really fast.
R!: – You’ve recorded all the instruments on the album with help from other musicians as well…
TL: Yes, most of the instruments.
R!: – Was this the most challenging part of the recording process?
TL: I think maybe recording the vocals was the most challenging aspect of it all. One of the songs was sung by Kjetil Nordhus (Green Carnation, ex Tristania) and Mariangela Demurtas (ex Tristania) and it was actually a song that was a leftover from “Darkest White”, the last Tristania album. It was made by me and I really didn’t want it to disappear into oblivion. I wanted to complete it. Nothing happened with Tristania, so I just wanted to release it because it’s a very important song to me and it just felt natural to do it with those two singers. I played guitars and drums on that song and had three other guests as well: Pete Johansen, who’s been working with Tristania and many other bands, and then Håkon Didriksen (Abyssic) and Mustis (ex Dimmu Borgir), both of them live in Kviteseid and that’s where I’m from, so I met them there. We talked about this and they agreed to take part in it and I was very happy about that.
R!: – Did any of these guests suggest a change or did they just play what you had in mind?
TL: No, they haven’t really suggested much. Sometimes things have been done maybe a bit on the side of what I liked and asked them to play in a different way, but most of the time I really liked what they were doing. I didn’t really give them too much instructions, I just let them do their thing, especially when it comes to Pete Johansen, the violin player, he really experimented and came up with some amazing things I think. I really love the way he plays. I feel really grateful and privileged to have him on this album. I hope we can do some stuff in the future as well.
R!: – When did you realize you could also sing?
TL: Maybe next year? (laughs). I don’t know, I just had to try. It was really scary the first time in the studio, I tried to sing after recording all the instruments for the song “Reason”. I recorded that one in Strand Studio with engineer Marius Strand and that day I recorded drums, bass, keyboards, guitars, and then I was supposed to do the vocals at the end of the day and I had maybe one and a half hours to do it, and my head was just boiling. I tried to sing and I listened to the mix on my way home in the car and thought it sounded like crap. I didn’t know I was singing out of tune. I was really demotivated. It was horrible. And then I thought that I had to give it one more try, so I contacted Henning Ramseth who lives down the road from me and I went to his studio and it sounded much better because I wasn’t so tired. So I was pretty happy with the result after that. I’m not a vocalist per se, but I like to sing in my own songs, I think it’s interesting to try new things. On some of the songs, I planned to have Kjetil Nordhus singing, but then I thought it was going to be more personal if I sang and to me that’s very important. For instance in that song “Reason”, he does the choruses and I do the verses, so we found a balance, so I think that was better than him or me doing all the different parts.
R!: – The album was recorded in many different studios, why was that?
TL: Most of the basic tracks have been recorded in the Strand Studio in Oslo, then we recorded the violin in Artbeat Studio in Sandnes, Mustis did his stuff in his own studio and sent it to me, Mariangela sent her backing vocals from Portugal in her studio there. Another one was Kenneth Lykkås’ studio in Vennesla where he recorded Kjetil’s vocals for the song “Art of Departure”, I was there with them because I really like to be present when they record it, but for instance when Pete was doing the violins for “Reason”, I just sent the song and couldn’t go to Sandnes, so he sent it back to me and I was so happy about the result, he’s a genius. Then we also used Henning Ramseth’s studio and my brother’s studio in Hamar. He has his home studio there.
R!: – How long did the recording process take?
TL: The recording didn’t take so long when I just decided doing it. The thing is that going into the studio these days costs a lot of money if you don’t have the skills to do it yourself, and I don’t (laughs). I can play instruments to a certain degree, but I cannot do anything in the studio, I didn’t develop those skills during these years. That’s really stupid actually, I should have done it. So I have to spend a day or two in the studio to finish the song, and it’s a matter of saving some money to do it.
R!: – It took just a few days to record then…
TL: Yeah, more or less one day per song plus some vocal parts in some other studio, but the basic tracks in one day. It takes a long time to arrange the song and to decide on the parts. Sometimes it’s a good idea to chew on the song a little bit to make it better. When I was in the studio with the song “Reason”, then it developed from being four minutes long to six and a half minutes because I decided to change parts. It’s good in a way, but next time around I’m gonna be more prepared and going to try all these things in advance before going to the studio. I thought I was prepared, but I can be more prepared than I was now.
R!: – What’s the concept behind the album cover? You have a person in the front who seem to be remembering or suffering, and behind this person there’s people without faces, but one of them looks different…
TL: You know? This cover is open to interpration. It was made by Samuel Araya from Paraguay. He got the main idea from me and he just worked on his ideas and ended up with this. In my view, the people can be considered to be mankind and the person behind can be someone who was really special to the main person. If you take a closer look to that person, you see something is happening to his head. I believe in the soul aspect of existence and to me this deals with that. The title is right underneath and it’s “Art of Departure” and that could be departure from anything really, but it could also be departure from existence, from life on Earth. All the faces are blurred which make them anonymous. Those were maybe some of the main ideas behind it, but people should decide for themselves. I would like to continue the cooperation with Samuel actually, I really like working with him. He had a lot of ideas.
R!: – Could you briefly describe each song? Let’s start with “Reason”…
TL: You can call it a progressive song in certain ways. It has many different moods throughout the song, the dynamics vary a bit, it starts really mellow and the rhythm changes, so it gives the illusion of different tempos. All the songs are built from the lyrics. There are many lyrics that I’ve been collecting for many years, they had just been there in my storage, so I’ve just picked out the lyrics that I really wanted to finalize.
R!: – Did you change some things from those lyrics?
TL: Yeah, working with these songs I’ve been changing a lot. Maybe I’ve been having three poems and made them into one song. Sometimes you need to change the rhythm, the meter and some words to make it fit. This song “Reason” was actually two poems that I put together. Three of the songs contain drums and this is one of them. On the next release there will be a lot more drums and it’s going to be more rhythmical when it comes to the build up of the songs. I’m going to base it much more on rhythms. But for this release it was really based on the lyrics first and foremost. I guess all the songs are a bit melancholic and sad.
R!: – What about “Immortal Until”?
TL: “Immortal Until” is a very mellow song without drums. Only bass, guitar and vocals. When it comes to the lyrics, it’s about feeling immortal everyday until you don’t because you’re dead. It’s a countdown to that final day for everybody. You might say it’s a bit negative to live life like that, but as long as you can enjoy as much time as possible, that’s all we can do.
R!: – “Art of Departure”, this was the first one you wrote…
TL: Yes, that was the first one. That lyric is really old, I made it in 2011 maybe… and the verses were made maybe twenty years ago. These were also two poems that I put together into one song.
R!: – So this was written in different years, but if you don’t know that, you could think it was written in the same year…
TL: Yeah, that’s true. I guess you can’t really tell that this one is older than the other ones, but it’s been lying there. The thing is that in Tristania we sent ideas back and forth, and I guess it started before “Darkest White”, I ended up being the lyricist for the whole album. Then I got really motivated to just continue doing that and I collected the poems that I thought were good enough to send to the other people in the band, so I sent them poems quite often. I put numbers on them, so I ended up with 135 poems or so, some are short and others long, some are crap and some are better (laughs). It’s been really nice to use that when looking for ideas and actually I also made some lyrics for Ardours, the band from Mariangela and Kris Laurent, I made all the lyrics for their first album and eight out of ten for the second one. Then I used lyrics from this pool, so it was nice to take ideas that would fit those songs. The problem there was that I used some of the lyrics that I would like to use in my solo project, but it’s all good because it’s been released and I really like those songs as well. It’s nice to be able to contribute to their project. I still have some poems left and also have maybe 35 lyrics in Norwegian.
R!: – Do you plan to use those ones or this project will be only in English?
TL: This can be in both languages. The next album can be in Norwegian for that matter, I don’t have any boundaries when it comes to that. But most likely it’s going to be a mix, and I also hope to be inspired to write some new lyrics because it’s not so motivating to just use the old archive.
R!: – Exactly, more things happen in your life and you get more inspiration.
TL: Absolutely, but that’s also the case on this album because although many of these poems are old, I made new additions to them to make them fit, of course. So this was not written in its entirety many years ago, maybe just 40%.
R!: – Let’s continue with the songs. What can you tell us about “The Bottom of This”?
TL: That’s actually one of the more bluesy songs here when it comes to the guitar riff. The song started out as a guitar riff and I just found a poem that fit, then it kind of grew up of that. I think that song is a bit inspired by Ledfoot, I’m a big fan. I think he’s a great songwriter and artist. I’ve never seen him live, I would like to do that (laughs)
R!: – “No Longer with Us”
TL: That’s a really mellow song. It’s almost like it doesn’t exist (laughs). That’s as mellow as it gets when it comes to me anyway. It’s only a guitar and the vocals have a lot of reverb, it’s like you are in a cathedral or something, a big sound, but it’s not pompous. All of the songs without drums here, “Immortal Until”, “No Longer with Us” and “Still Here”, you might say that I should have put drums on them and that could have been ok, but to me it didn’t really add anything to the song. Sometimes you just need to leave it like that and that’s the way it’s supposed to be. Some people may say that it sounds like a demo because it’s not really arranged, or that it could be done in this or that way, but to me it’s supposed to be like that.
R!: – The last song is “Still Here”…
TL: That was made on my fiancée’s piano. I can’t really play the keyboards, I can play what I teach myself. For instance, if there’s a guitar riff that I made up, I can just try to play the guitar riff on the keyboards. On “Reason” there’s a keyboard riff on the intro and that was something I played on guitar first, so I thought that it would sound cool on keyboards. I like simple lines… as Spinal Tap says “simple lines intertwining” (laughs). But I really like that, simple things that make you feel good.
R!: – The album is available online and vinyl on its physical release. Are there any plans of releasing it in other formats as well?
TL: We’ve been talking about releasing it on CD, so that might happen in a not too distant future. Possibly. But it was meant to be only a vinyl release. The album is available to buy in Oslo, or you can just go to the Facebook page or send an email to artofdeparture@gmail.com
R!: – Are you also thinking about distribution?
TL: That’s a good question. We’ve been talking a lot about that, and yes, we have been considering maybe hooking up with vinyl stores in some countries, maybe Brazil or other countries in Latin America.
R!: – Well, there are many Tristania fans in Latin America in general, but there’s a big fanbase in Brazil for some reason. I get lots of messages from Brazilian people talking about Tristania…
TL: Yeah, it’s amazing!
R!: – So I guess those Tristania fans might be interested in this project.
TL: Yeah, maybe some people will see the link or find it interesting in some way. The music is not that far away from Tristania either. It’s a bit different, but you can still find some things that are characteristic from Tristania. So I would recommend it to everyone who has ever listened to Tristania (laughs)
R!: – Do you have any plans for a music video?
TL: Oh yeah, good thing that you asked about that. We already made a teaser for the album, it’s kind of a music video, but it has small portions of all the songs. Stian Bruun, the guy who made this teaser, is going to make a video for “Reason”. The plan is to make it this summer. We really like the way he works and it’s gonna be exciting to see if the things that we have in our heads are gonna materialize. It’s going to be interesting.
R!: – Are you planning to do some live shows or is this a studio project only?
TL: It was meant to be a studio project, but a lot of people have been asking this question. It would be very nice to perform the songs live, but then somebody needs to play the instruments (laughs). So I need to team up with some people, but first of all I have to find out what I’m gonna do. I think the best thing would be to either play the drums or to sing, or maybe both. So that’s something that might happen some time in the future, but there are no concrete plans right now.
R!: – I was thinking about Darkthrone now (laughs). No live shows.
TL: (laughs) But I think it’s really nice to just do stuff in the studio. To have ideas and to actually go to the studio and make the song and get it out there. It’s really fulfilling. It feels really good.
R!: – But do you miss playing live?
TL: I really miss playing live with Tristania, I have to say that. That’s something that would be nice to experience again.
R!: – By the way, do you think that could happen in the future or not at all?
TL: As things are now, there’s not much chance of that happening, but you never know what’s gonna happen in the future.
R!: – Do you have to be in certain mood or certain place to be inspired to write or an idea just comes out of nowhere when you walk down the street for example?
TL: You know? Most of these lyrics have been written when I’ve been a bit sad, melancholic or feeling sorry for myself after stuff that has happened in life. That’s the mood that makes me feel inspired to write. It’s not nice to be sad or go through things in life that are heavy, but it’s nice to use that for something creative. Almost makes it worthwile to be like that sometimes (laughs)
R!: – Yeah, I totally get it.
TL: Many of these songs deal with the futility of life and the question “what are we doing here?” I guess that’s not really original when it comes to that aspect because that’s how so many people feel, but I like to put words into those feelings. I think there are too many people these days who are so sure about stuff. They’re sure that God doesn’t exist, they’re sure that God does exist, they’re so sure about things, but how can they be so sure? I think that’s very arrogant. I think science and religious people are arrogant in their own way. Stop being arrogant.
R!: – What was the first instrument you learned to play? Was it drums?
TL: Yes, drums, but the guitar was lying around because my brother was playing it. He’s two and a half years younger than me, so I started playing the drums when I was 13 and he started playing the guitar around the same time. So his guitar was always around and I just borrowed it. Then I started buying Guitar World and Guitar Player. I used to subscribe to Guitar School. So I learned tablature, nobody taught me how to play guitar, I just kept playing and learned songs that I really liked at the time. My skills are really limited, but I can play certain things that I like to play and make songs that I like to hear. I’ve actually played guitar on stage once in my life. I was in a tribute band called Müllerhead for Bjørn Müller (Backstreet Girls). This was in 1998 and I think it was for his birthday or something, and it was in Oslo in a place called Mars. My brother and I used to be big fans of the Backstreet Girls. It was Metallica, Iron Maiden, Kiss and Backstreet Girls (laughs). So that was really cool. But I was playing guitar on stage and that was scary, I would never do that again.
R!: – Why was it so scary?
TL: I got really nervous and my fingers were not doing what they were supposed to do, and I didn’t hear anything because of the sound. So I told to myself: “Never again” (laughs)
R!: – You feel way more comfortable on the drums.
TL: Oh yeah. Actually during that concert, I played half the songs as a guitar player and then I switched to the drums and it felt so good.
R!: – And the drummer switched to the guitar? (laughs)
TL: No, he just left (laughs)
R!: – Do you remember the first song you learned on drums?
TL: It must have been “Strange Ways” by Kiss, from the “Hotter than Hell” album. I was playing buckets though, like most of aspiring drummers do. They start playing pots, pans and buckets or whatever, so I used to have some buckets in the couch at home. Didn’t really have drumsticks either, just some wooden sticks I found.
R!: – Was Peter Criss your main inspiration?
TL: Yeah, he was a big inspiration. I used to paint my face in Peter Criss makeup. I actually went to this party in 8th grade. It was just a regular class get together, and I showed up in Peter Criss makeup for some reason. I guess people thought I was stupid or crazy, but that’s the only time my mother cried when I came home (laughs)
R!: – She didn’t like Kiss then… (laughs)
TL: She doesn’t mind. She’s really liberal and hasn’t been saying anything, but that day she thought I went crazy. So yeah, I was very inspired by Peter Criss at that time. I think he must have inspired many generations of drummers. He’s not the best drummer in Kiss when it comes to technical abilities, but at that time he was perfect for Kiss, and played really well until maybe ’78. But yeah, I was really inspired by him and the whole mystery about Kiss.
R!: – Yeah, there was this mystery back then. That’s gone with social media and everything. It’s almost impossible for a band to be mysterious these days.
TL: That’s certainly true.
R!: – I think that mystery was amazing.
TL: Yes, it was amazing. I remember when nobody had seen Ace Frehley without makeup. It didn’t happen until mid 80’s or something. I remember the Swedish magazine Okej was supposed to have this feature about Ace Frehley unmasked and we were going crazy back home because we used to read this magazine, so we were all excited because we were about to see Ace Frehley without makeup (laughs). But it’s really amazing that they managed to build this big thing.
R!: – Exactly. Something like that doesn’t happen now.
TL: No, but you know? To this day, there’s a bond between Kiss fans. You have podcasts and a lot of people listen to them. You have people nerding around the tiniest aspects or details of what happened on this day in 1973 and stuff like that (laughs)
R!: – Do you have a Kiss collection?
TL: I used to have a lot of Kiss albums, but I sold them 25 years ago. Most of them when I was really poor (laughs). So I had to. I sold a lot of signed Iron Maiden albums and bootlegs and stuff like that. It’s really annoying to think about now. I haven’t really been into collecting or holding stuff like some people do, they go crazy.
R!: – Yeah, there are people who have entire rooms dedicated to Kiss.
TL: My room used to be dedicated to all the bands I liked. First there were big posters and then I got all these smaller pictures of all of them, so I didn’t have enough space and I had to attach them to the big ones.
R!: – So the room was covered with pictures
TL: It was covered and there were things hanging from the ceiling. I slept there, but I couldn’t spend so much time because there were too many things. There were not really collectibles, I just cut these magazines into pieces, so they were not worth anything, but I liked what it looked like.
R!: – What was your first band?
TL: The very first band was with some of my classmates. It was called The Birds Know. We just made some instrumentals and had a problem finishing songs. We just made some riffs which we couldn’t really finish. We were just starting out. Then I had a band with my brother called Bon Pine, and we played for many years at home in the basement. I have a lot of good memories from that time. We used to play a lot of the Backstreet Girls covers actually. We used to send these recordings of the songs to the drummer in Backstreet Girls, poor guy (laughs). Then we played some Metallica, Iron Maiden, Kiss and AC/DC covers…
R!: – But you guys also had your own songs, right?
TL: Yes, after a while we started making our own songs and we made a demo/cassette release during a weekend in Oslo in 1992. This demo actually made us get a record deal proposition in Germany. So we got a phone call from Germany and this guy was saying that he liked our demo and wanted to invite us down to the countryside just outside Hamburg, but we had to pay for our trip. So we said yes, it was a good feeling. But it turned out to be a big scam. To make a long story short, we went down there and the studio had Accept albums that were supposedly recorded there, and it was of course very impressive to be there and see that. But this record company were just contacting a lot of bands, making all the bands pay 10% of the production fees, and nothing came after that. I think they just made the bands pay and then nothing happened. We found out when we came back home because we brought home this record contract proposition and gave it to a lawyer, so he looked at it and thought it was a bit like slavery (laughs). I used to tape trade with a lot of people in Norway at the time, and I got this letter from Bergen, from a band called Punishment Park and they had a flyer saying that if anyone had been in contact with that company, that we should stay away from there. It was a good thing that we got that message, but yeah, that was really disappointing. We were really naive and believed in everything these people were saying.
R!: – You mentioned that you used to tape trade. Did you have any contact with any black metal musicians at the time?
TL: I wasn’t aware because this was late 80’s.
R!: – So you had no idea about Mayhem for example?
TL: Oh yeah, I knew about Mayhem. I actually bought “Deathcrush” in ’88. I think that was because Maniac (former Mayhem vocalist) used to print his fanzine Damage Inc. in Kviteseid. They were printed at the local newspaper. I knew about that because I knew the son of the editor of the newspaper, so I got those from him. Maniac was also writing in the local newspaper, so you could find reviews of things like Kreator that nobody knew. You had the sports results, bingo and then Kreator (laughs). So I got “Deathcrush” and I was like “what the hell is this?”. It was interesting just to listen to because it was so totally different from anything, but I didn’t really understand it at the time. I thought it had some cool riffs, but didn’t understand the vocals or anything like that. I was stupid enough to sell that release ten years after that (laughs). I should have kept that one. But yeah, I was trading tapes with some of the people who turned out to become famous later, but I didn’t know them.
R!: – Yeah, it was just letters.
TL: Yeah. One of the guys I was writing a lot with was actually Tore Bratseth. He was talking about the band he was playing which was Old Funeral and sent some pictures. That was really funny. We were trading demos and stuff, so if there was room at the end of the tape, he would put whatever. It could be anything like him starting a motorcycle or calling some old guy and doing some phone terror (laughs)
R!: – Things people were doing before internet (laughs)
TL: Exactly (laughs). But he would also put local bands they were playing in.
R!: – Have you ever had contact with Euronymous during this time?
TL: No. None of the people in the main black metal circle. I had some correspondence with Faust, it was just a couple of letters, I don’t think we traded anything, but I was aware of his existence.
R!: – Ok, let’s continue with your career. How did you end up joining Tristania?
TL: I moved to Oslo in 1995 after spending one year in college in the States. I had played in a band in the States with some friends, and I wanted to continue playing, so I put a note somewhere in Oslo, and the first guy who called me was Jens Fredrik Ryland from Borknagar. So we met up and and he knew this other guitar player, and started jamming. We tried to make some music together, but it didn’t really work out. Then the next guy who called me was Cornelius Jakhelln from Solefald, they were going on tour and needed a drummer. I’d been sitting rehearsing double bass for many years, but never really used it in the bands I’ve been playing, but I really liked working out like that. So I was more or less ready to play that kind of music. Solefald was really experimental, they were signed to this company called Avant-Garde, and their music was kind of avant-garde as well. They kept comparing themselves to Emperor and Chris Isaak, that’s a bit different (laughs). They were a mix of everything and I really liked the lyrics. I thought they were interesting because one aspect of the vocals were inspired by black metal, but then they had the so called clean vocals, Lars Are (Nedland) was singing his way and also Cornelius was singing with his regular voice, it was varied and very inspirational. When I listened to their first album, I was blown away, I just loved it. Then they went on tour and I was allowed to play with them, and had a great time. That’s when I met Tristania, because they were going on tour with Solefald at the time, so we shared the tour bus. The German band Haggard was also there. That was my first tour. This was in 1998. We really got along in the bus, so when Tristania needed a drummer in 2005, they put an ad in Scream Magazine I think, and I contacted them. I knew them from before so they sent me the songs. I met them in Oslo on the “Ashes” tour, so they told me to come to Stavanger to play. It worked out really well, then I joined them as a live drummer, played with them in 2005 for the first time and continued to do so here and there. They had their regular drummer, but he had a job that was impossible to combine with playing, so I joined in 2009 as regular drummer right before the “Rubicon” album. It was kind of strange to join a band that had tours going on, a fan base and stuff like that. Before that, I had been playing in a local band called Diabla in Oslo for eight years, and we hadn’t really gotten anywhere. Then when you joined this band everything is just lined up. That was a great experience I have to say.
R!: – What are your best memories with Tristania?
TL: Good question. Maybe the first Latin American tour in 2008. That was really amazing. During the spring of 2008, we went to Brazil, Chile, Argentina, Mexico. It was a short tour, but for me it was a dream come true to go there and experience these people that were so committed. It was really different from the scene here. That was extremely inspiring.
Then the most terrifying, but also the best moment in a way, was when we played at Wacken in 2009. It wasn’t Tristania’s first time there, but it was my first time. A lot of things went wrong during the gig, but just being on stage there… That was something I never thought I was going to experience. But I remember it was really terrifying. Maybe we were not quite ready because it was a quite new setup for the band with new members. Anyway, we got the gig and rehearsed like crazy, but when I listen to the recordings of that day now, I see how many things were wrong. The guitar amplifier went to hell, I lost the click in my ears and I played a part too early in one of the songs. We used backing keyboards because we didn’t have a keyboard player live, so I just had to turn it off because I played wrong. I made a mistake and experiencing that in front of so many people, that’s really scary (laughs)
That memory really sticks in my mind. I remember Mariangela was really psyched up for that concert and afterwards she just fell asleep (laughs). She was probably burned out or something. That was interesting.
But it’s been a lot of nice experiences with that band. I’m really grateful to have experienced the tours we did, I just wish we could have done more. During the last years, it was just maybe a couple of festivals a year, and it was really fun, but some people lost motivation.
R!: – Is that the reason why the band split up?
TL: Yeah, you might say that, but other things happened during the end. Illness within the family before last tour and so on, but the general feeling was lack of motivation. So I guess it would have fizzled out anyway, sooner or later. So in order for that band to get together, that spirit needs to be rekindled.
R!: – Thanks a lot for the interview!
TL: Thank you!
